| Pages in topic: [1 2 3] > | Trial translations for soliciting new clients for customers Thread poster: Julian Holmes
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Julian Holmes 
Japan
Local time: 22:11
Member (2011)
Japanese to English
I do regular work for a company and they sometimes ask me to do "trial translations" for potential new clients of theirs, saying that, if the result is successful, they will get lots of work from the new client which they will ask me to do. I am, of course, reimbursed for this trial translation.
On one particular trial translation, I hadn't heard from my customer about the result for quite a while and so I asked them what happened. They told me that it was accepted by their client a... See more I do regular work for a company and they sometimes ask me to do "trial translations" for potential new clients of theirs, saying that, if the result is successful, they will get lots of work from the new client which they will ask me to do. I am, of course, reimbursed for this trial translation.
On one particular trial translation, I hadn't heard from my customer about the result for quite a while and so I asked them what happened. They told me that it was accepted by their client and they were successful in receiving a big project. However, "since I seemed busy" (sic) they outsourced it to a different translator.
Obviously, I am still angry at them for:
(i) not informing me of the result
(ii) not asking me if I was free to do it, and
(iii) failing to adhere to the initial agreement as initially promised.
They are currently asking me to do another "trial translation" right now -- i.e. use my expertise to get a new client for their company and the result might be the same, that is, send work which may result to other translators.
Have you every had the same experience? And, how did you deal with it?
Of course, I am formulating a plan on how to prevent the same from happening again. However, I would appreciate advice and pointers from others who have been in a similar position as I am in right now.
Thanks in advance for your input!
Edited title
[Edited at 2012-12-26 06:33 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Free service to tempt new customers | Dec 26, 2012 |
But YOU should be paid. Do advertising material printers, for instance, not get paid?
| | | | | Phony face of the agency | Dec 26, 2012 |
I had encountered a similar experience some time back. It is obvious that the agency used my "trial/test translation" which was duly paid for to get the project, and distributed the work among the pool of translators in their black book. I wonder if the end clients demand to have the name of the translator for each project done.
| | | | | Let me get this straight | Dec 26, 2012 |
You mention being reimbursed, but do you mean you get paid for the trial translations, or you do it for free and later the big (real) one associated with the trial comes and get compensated for?
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Julian Holmes
Japan
Local time: 22:11
Member (2011)
Japanese to English
TOPIC STARTER | Reimbursement | Dec 26, 2012 |
@Yasutomo and Noni
Yes, I was paid for the trial translation. This was the bait used to win the contract, which was eventually given to another translator.
I thought the general understood rule is to give the translator who did the actual translation first dibs on the new contracted project. This is the key issue with my posting.
Or, does this not happen in your countries?
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 14:11
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Julian Holmes wrote:
On one particular trial translation, I hadn't heard from my customer about the result for quite a while and so I asked them what happened. They told me that it was accepted by their client and they were successful in receiving a big project. However, "since I seemed busy" (sic) they outsourced it to a different translator.
Sounds as though you have a good relationship with a good PM, who couldn't bring him/herself to lie to you (which would have been easy, I imagine, as you probably are in no position to check whether they won the contract), but whose company is going the same way as so many others: profits first; we'll do the best we can for the money regarding quality.
I haven't been in the same position, but it doesn't sound a happy one for future relations. I'd be interested to hear what you're planning to avoid this happening again - will you share?
| | | | Shai Navé
Israel
Local time: 16:11
English to Hebrew
+ ...
| Yet another example why samples are mostly useless | Dec 26, 2012 |
I thought the general understood rule is to give the translator who did the actual translation first dibs on the new contracted project. This is the key issue with my posting.
The truth of the matter is that there are no rules, just people, interests and ethics. What you describe is a common "bait and switch" tactic used by some to win a client and then send the work to a cheaper translator, while pocketing the difference in the process.
This is one of the reasons why I think that translation samples are useless in practice, the whole "vetting" process can be too easily abused. The translator providing the sample isn't necessarily the one that will work on the "actual" project, thus the client, even if they are in any position to truly judge the quality, is not guaranteed anything for the future; and the translator, not knowing who is the client nor in a position to find out if the agency got the project or not gets pretty much the same assurance.
This is of course even more true for free samples, but applies just as well for paid ones.
Personally, I would either stop providing that agency any samples (even if they pay for them) or cut my ties with them altogether, because by supporting their questionable practices one is hurting themselves (and the profession) in the long run.
There is also something to be said about empty promises. It is most advisable not to fall for all those false promises for future work (usually conditioned by providing something in return in the immediate future). If one is so certain about receiving work, why not back that up with a work order or a signed contract in advance?
[Edited at 2012-12-26 09:42 GMT]
| | | | Julian Holmes
Japan
Local time: 22:11
Member (2011)
Japanese to English
TOPIC STARTER
Sheila Wilson wrote:
I'd be interested to hear what you're planning to avoid this happening again - will you share?
I'm not exactly sure how this will turn out, however, I'll keep you in the loop.
Shai Nave wrote:
Personally, I would either stop providing that agency any samples (even if they pay for them) or cut my ties with them altogether, because by supporting their questionable practices one is hurting themselves (and the profession) in the long run.
If one is so certain about receiving work, why not back that up with a work order or a signed contract in advance?
Useful points, Shai, thank you!
I think the biggest thing that hurts most -- apart from prospective work not coming way -- is that trust built so far has been severely damaged or lost. I'm inclined to agree that getting an agreement in advance (signed or otherwise, e-mails clearly indicating intent is the next best thing) to the effect that work/projects won as a result of my trial translation should preferentially be given to me is a good idea to proceed with and will help generate the extra trust to proceed with such trial or sample translations.
After all, they are supposedly trusting me to turn in a "killer" translation to win over a prospective new client and extra work. So, some kind of reciprocation in advance is called for, I think.
Two small edits
[Edited at 2012-12-26 12:19 GMT]
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| Multi-level bait & switch | Dec 26, 2012 |
Once I was hired by a small local agency to proofread/edit a relatively short translation, which was pretty bad. They sounded desperate, immediately offered to double my standard rates for same-day delivery and COD payment. Afterwards I learned that it was the agency owner's translation test for another agency. To save face, he said they wouldn't be using that translator again.
A very good client of mine told me a new client had approached them, saying that they weren't satis... See more Once I was hired by a small local agency to proofread/edit a relatively short translation, which was pretty bad. They sounded desperate, immediately offered to double my standard rates for same-day delivery and COD payment. Afterwards I learned that it was the agency owner's translation test for another agency. To save face, he said they wouldn't be using that translator again.
A very good client of mine told me a new client had approached them, saying that they weren't satisfied with their present LSP, and would like to test her quality. So this prospect sent her a translation received from that vendor to proofread, so they could compare.
It didn't take me long to notice that their current vendor was machine translation. The most deadly evidence was a typo on the original, TWETNY (sic!), left untranslated. Any schoolkid would know that it should be TWENTY = "VINTE" in PT... but not machine translation!
My client was really mad at this prospect attempting to fool her and get post-MT editing at proofreading rates.
A video dubbing studio that now and then hires me to translate corporate video asked me to translate a feature film. The director told me that it was the required sample for them to win a dubbing contract for 300 films, so he'd be thankful if I gave my best shot (which I always do). He also explained that while my translation rates would not be affordable within this contract, his usual translators would not have enough quality for them to win it.
I had no chance to see the results, however they said it came out great. Apparently they were awarded the contract, as I learned that this studio has been dubbing round the clock ever since.
So bait & switch seems to be pretty common practice in our trade.
Whenever I am offered half of my normal rate or less, and requested to provide a test translation or a sample, I suggest they use free online machine translation. I direct them to this page. If the right column there is good enough for them, why waste any money at all on cheap amateurs? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 15:11
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
| Another translator | Dec 26, 2012 |
Julian Holmes wrote:
@Yasutomo and Noni
Yes, I was paid for the trial translation. This was the bait used to win the contract, which was eventually given to another translator.
I thought the general understood rule is to give the translator who did the actual translation first dibs on the new contracted project. This is the key issue with my posting.
Or, does this not happen in your countries?
So how is this process different from scamming? It obviously involves a great amount of lying and stealing your work for purposes other than what was agreed.
| | | | Shabelula
Italy
Local time: 15:11
English to Italian
+ ...
| ONCE the trust is finished.... | Dec 26, 2012 |
if you do not trust them any longer for how bad it might seem I would not look back at them, unless they offer a very reasonable excuse - which is not the case here.
| | | | Shai Navé
Israel
Local time: 16:11
English to Hebrew
+ ...
| This might be a bit blunt but... | Dec 26, 2012 |
when it comes to working with middlemen, there is no such thing as relationships or trust, perhaps with the exception of smaller agencies that are run by 2-3 people (usually invested in one way or another in the business, in oppose to transient PMs in larger agencies), with whom you have established relationships over (a long) time. Otherwise, all the trust and relationship that you worked hard to build are gone when the PM leaves the organization and/or even in general because they don't set th... See more when it comes to working with middlemen, there is no such thing as relationships or trust, perhaps with the exception of smaller agencies that are run by 2-3 people (usually invested in one way or another in the business, in oppose to transient PMs in larger agencies), with whom you have established relationships over (a long) time. Otherwise, all the trust and relationship that you worked hard to build are gone when the PM leaves the organization and/or even in general because they don't set the policy, they are just point of contact. The policy is formulated and budgeting decisions are made well above their pay grade.
Therefore one should not develop expectations for anything more than what the specific work scope defines. The entire communication should be cordial and professional, but the expectations should end with that specific project, and nothing should be assumed for the future, and when taking a project with possible future implications, one should either get more in the loop to know where things stand firsthand or refuse the work if one thinks that the risk is too high or unacceptable from their perspective. Again, though I may sound paranoid, you just cannot trust some faceless organization just because you happen to work with them for a while.
There is a difference when working with direct clients and agencies. Each with their own advantages and disadvantages, and nature and scope of relationships. Therefore, one should put the relationship also into a broader context.
All that being said, I wholeheartedly sympathize with you. This is really uncomfortable position to be in, and I can imagine that it feels like betrayal of trust. But what is done is done and you should look ahead, trying to salvage whatever value, if any, left for you working with that agency, while minimizing the risk of getting put into disadvantage again.
I'm inclined to agree that getting an agreement in advance...will help generate the trust to proceed with such trial or sample translations
By asking for such guarantee, you put them on the spot, and although they can quite easily bypass it with you none the wiser, the request can show them that you "mean business" and call for their attention. Probably worth trying if you really want to continue working with them, but slim chances that they will agree (and I personally would cut my tie with them, even gradually, because if they do that with you they are probably doing that with others as well and are, in essence, scamming their clients, and it reflects on our entire profession and thus should not be supported).
After all, they are supposedly trusting me to turn in a "killer" translation to win over a prospective new client and extra work
Don't confuse trust with interests. They are "trusting" you to win them the project because they know that it will put them in the best position to do so. This is probably out of an interest rather than anything else. This is a one way street and once you served your purpose, now they are under no obligation to give you the "actual" project or any work at all.
This is why I, personally, advise to be very careful with similar samples for this agency (and in general) going forward, even if they will be willing (which I doubt) to sign a "letter of intent", it could be so easily phrased vaguely or ignored altogether because you are in no position to enforce its execution.
[Edited at 2012-12-26 10:53 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Marvin Sun
China
Local time: 21:11
English to Chinese
This does happen. Actually this sort of practice is morally incorrect since the agency deceived its clients. Agencies are supposed to provide clients with the translations whose professionalism should be at the same level as the samples. I think the agency did this because:
1. Your rate is higher than the remaining translators in the agency's translator pool; therefore they can cut down the cost;
2. The client doesn't know the target language, or they didn't care about the quality of... See more This does happen. Actually this sort of practice is morally incorrect since the agency deceived its clients. Agencies are supposed to provide clients with the translations whose professionalism should be at the same level as the samples. I think the agency did this because:
1. Your rate is higher than the remaining translators in the agency's translator pool; therefore they can cut down the cost;
2. The client doesn't know the target language, or they didn't care about the quality of the translation, and the agency was sure about this;
3. You are too good to the agency and always say YES to their repetitive requirements on test translations;
I think it's better to do only one test for one agency. If an agency requires more tests, I’d just refuse it and tell the agency I did the test in the beginning and they should have known my translation skills already.
Even I get paid for doing test translations for them, I still don’t feel right to provide sample translations for prospective projects in which I’m not going to be involved. What if the client finds being cheated later and files a lawsuit against the agency? Instead of being counted in the actual project, I might be poorly counted in the lawsuit (I have to defend that I didn’t participate in the actual project). ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 15:11
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
They may use your CV or letters of reference for the same unethical purposes (without you being aware at all), so I am really selective about where I'm sending these.
Lately, I have seen many unclear job posts without many details requesting a CV to be sent. I reply asking for more details about the project before I actually send in my CV, and then never hear back from them again.
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 15:11
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
| Yes, and the irony is... | Dec 26, 2012 |
Marvin Sun wrote:
This does happen. Actually this sort of practice is morally incorrect since the agency deceived its clients. Agencies are supposed to provide clients with the translations whose professionalism should be at the same level as the samples.
What's paradoxal is that end clients trust agencies more than individual translators. Well maybe they deserve this if they can't place their trust in the right place.
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