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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

date de passage d'un peuple germanique

English translation:

Germanic migrations

Added to glossary by French Foodie
Oct 4, 2005 08:57
18 yrs ago
2 viewers *
French term

date de passage

French to English Social Sciences Geography maps (historic)
Appears in the legend of a map of the Roman Empire and the 5th-century invasions

Date de passage d'un peuple germanique

This is one of those terrible translation blocks, where I know exactly what they mean, but somehow "Date a Germanic people passed through" doesn't sound right for a map legend.
Help "unblocking" would be greatly appreciated :-)
Proposed translations (English)
4 +1 Time of the Germanic migrations
5 Era [or time] of first Germanic people sweeping through Gaul
5 Date of (first) Germantic tribal crossing
3 +1 first germanic arrivals
3 +1 some ideas
4 "...illustrating the wandering of peoples"
3 time/year when a Germanic tribe passed/marched through

Discussion

Michele Fauble Oct 6, 2005:
The idea of 'passage' can also be 'crossing', as in 'passage de la fronti�re', i.e crossing a river or the limes into the Empire. These dates are often given on maps.
Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X) Oct 6, 2005:
the idea of passage is to go through or sweep through..everything else makes it sound like they "stopped" there whereas passage does not
Michele Fauble Oct 5, 2005:
I'm not sure that at the time there was a clear-cut distinction between invasions and migrations in the context of the movement of peoples into and through the Empire.
French Foodie (asker) Oct 5, 2005:
Hi Michele, the map has several dates and then written in the legend is "Date de passage d'un peuple germanique", so there are several movements into/through the empire.
Hi Rita, the legend uses "passage" while the title of the map refers to the "invasions du 5e siecle". So while I think that many of these "passages" were probably invasions, I am hesitant to use invasions bcs the French chose a more neutral word. Perhaps some were invasions and some were migrations, but the French isn't specific on this.
Michele Fauble Oct 5, 2005:
Or is it the date of the movement of one/the first Germanic tribe/people into/through the Roman Empire?
Michele Fauble Oct 5, 2005:
Is this a map legend giving the dates that the different Germanic tribes crossed into/through parts of the Roman Empire?
RHELLER Oct 4, 2005:
you used the term "invasion" which has a different connotation than "passage" - is that your interpretation?
Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X) Oct 4, 2005:
It's obnoxious isn't it that use of "un" peuple ...why don't they just say which peuple it was...:)

Proposed translations

+1
1 hr
French term (edited): Date de passage d'un peuple germanique
Selected

Time of the Germanic migrations

The term used in my Atlas of World History is "Barbarian Migrations (375-568)".
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&q="time of t...

Also Google for "Germanic migrations" or "barbarian migrations".

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Note added at 7 hrs 54 mins (2005-10-04 16:51:47 GMT)
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If this legend refers to the time when one particular Germanic tribe went through, you could simply say "(Date of/Time of) Infiltration by a Germanic tribe" (Enc Britannica: Contains an overview of the events and the rulers, court intrigues, infiltration by the Germanic tribes, and the spread of Christianity)

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Note added at 1 day 6 hrs 25 mins (2005-10-05 15:22:33 GMT)
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Following Mara's comment:
If there is one legend for all the dates, you can use "Dates of".
Or if it is understood, you can drop it altogether.
Then there's a combination of descriptions:
Germanic migrations
Germanic migrations and invasions
Migrations of Germanic tribes
Migrations of Germanic peoples
(all valid acc. to Google searches)
Peer comment(s):
agree Vicky Papaprodromou : Oh, I wish I were a migrant! :-)
11 hrs
Thank you for migrating this way...
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Many thanks to everyone. I went with Nick's short but sweet Germanic migrations, although I think Michele and Charlie's suggestions of crossing would have worked as well. "
+1
9 mins

first germanic arrivals

a guess based on what I read in the attached reference

http://members.aol.com/bakken1/angsax/asinv.htm
Peer comment(s):
agree Charlie Bavington : Good idea. Might not, of course, be the "first", and it needs a capital G, IMHO, but "arrivals" is good.
4 mins
Thanks Charlie, and oops for the capital G
Something went wrong...
+1
11 mins

some ideas

Date area crossed by Germanic tribe - if they were literally just passing through.
Migration date - I believe historians talk of the "migrations" of some groups at the time but I'm no expert.
Invasion date - if indeed they actually stopped for a fight :-)
Peer comment(s):
agree RHELLER : yes, crossed/ crossed through is probably the best in this context since asker would like to remain neutral
1 day 7 hrs
Something went wrong...
11 mins

time/year when a Germanic tribe passed/marched through

I would not use "date" in this context - normally the idea about the "timing" is only a fairly vague one.
Since the groups of Germanic people were usually fairly small, I would opt for "tribe" instead of "people".
Peer comment(s):
neutral Michele Fauble : Actually, many dates are well-known.
2 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 hrs

Era [or time] of first Germanic people sweeping through Gaul

***In the early fifth century, the Vandals, Sueves and Alans also crossed the Rhine. Moving westward, they swept into Gaul (roughly modern France and Belgium) and made their way southward into Spain.*** The Vandals, under their one great king, Gaiseric, arrived in Spain in 411 and their settlement, although shortlived, gave Andalusia (from Vandalusia) its name. The Vandals then entered North Africa where they established their capital and built a fleet with which they raided Sicily and Italy, pillaging Rome in 455. The word vandalism commemorates their atrocities. A Vandal kingdom remained in North Africa until 533, when the Eastern Emperor Justinian conquered their kingdom.


Another Germanic tribe, the Burgundians moved into sourtheastern Gaul (present-day Provence). The many "Burgundies" that exist today are evidence of their settlement. In 476, the traditional date for the fall of the Western Roman Empire, the German chieftain Odovacer deposed the West's last emperor, Romulus Augustulus, and established an autonomous kingdom in Italy. In 493, however, the Ostrogoths, led by Theodoric (c. 454 - 526), a German leader who had been brought up at the Court of Constantinople, defeated Odovacer and in turn established control over Italy.



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Note added at 4 hrs 9 mins (2005-10-04 13:06:44 GMT)
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Some swept through and others stayed...But the first groups apparently went on though to Spain...what I find particuparly amusing is the Spanish name Hermengilda..which exists to this day in Spain...

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Note added at 4 hrs 10 mins (2005-10-04 13:07:59 GMT)
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Final: Early 5th century: Germanic peoples first sweep through Gaul

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Note added at 4 hrs 13 mins (2005-10-04 13:10:33 GMT)
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whoops: some Germanic tribes sweep through Gaul

or: Early 5th century: for the first time, Germanic people arrive in Gaul and move through to Spain

Peer comment(s):
neutral Michele Fauble : My guess is that the map legend gives the dates of the different Germanic tribes crossing into/through parts of the Roman Empire. (At least this is the type of map legends I remember seeing in ancient history atlases.)
17 hrs
Something went wrong...
6 hrs

"...illustrating the wandering of peoples"

This is an actual title from an English historical atlas
from the map illustrating the migrations across Eurasia in the fourth century.
Something went wrong...
2 hrs

Date of (first) Germantic tribal crossing

The event was usually the crossing of a river or the limes into the Roman Empire.

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Note added at 2 hrs 36 mins (2005-10-04 11:33:33 GMT)
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That should be 'Germanic'
'Date of (first) Germanic tribal crossing'

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Note added at 2 hrs 38 mins (2005-10-04 11:35:20 GMT)
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or 'Date of ( first) Germanic tribe cossing'

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Note added at 2 hrs 39 mins (2005-10-04 11:36:16 GMT)
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Spelling again!
'Date of ( first) Germanic tribe crossing'

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Note added at 22 hrs 14 mins (2005-10-05 07:11:53 GMT)
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'Date of movement of Germanic tribe(s) into/through the Roman Empire'




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Note added at 22 hrs 28 mins (2005-10-05 07:25:14 GMT)
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or
'Date of movement of Germanic people(s) into/through the Roman Empire'
Something went wrong...
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